What’s up Sorry Staters?
Firstly, I wanna mention an upcoming gig in Raleigh on April 8th. Indikator B from Croatia will be coming through town. I met the band and got to see them play when Public Acid was on tour in Europe last summer. They totally rip! Check out what I wrote about their 7” on Doomtown Records if you’re so inclined. They’ll be on tour with a band called Totalna Tama from the Bay Area, whose singer moved here from Croatia and sings in the language! Super cool. Locals Plastique Pigs and Sunyata are also playing. Don’t miss it!
So, let’s dive right in, shall we? I didn’t know what to write about this week, but just yesterday, I had a blast listening to the new episode of 185 Miles South. I must say, it feels like Sorry State has developed quite a kinship with this podcast. I’m sure Daniel and I have mentioned them several times here in the newsletter. They often shout out Sorry State on the podcast as well, which is rad. Daniel has even appeared as a guest on 185 Miles South to participate in their European hardcore bracket.
Doing these bracket/tournament style episodes that try to weed out the best of the best is a daunting task, I’d imagine. Between 185 and that Hardlore podcast doing these bracket episodes, I always know what I’m getting myself into when I listen to these things. Sure, I’ve got my gripes with decisions that are made, but everyone’s got their own perspective, right? And if you’ve got deep love in your heart for all things punk and hardcore, and the records discussed are important to you, you’re gonna get fired up about ‘em. I have nerdy debates with my friends about this kinda stuff all the time, so these tournament podcasts are admittedly super fun to listen to.
I’m just gonna do a full-on spitballing reaction here, which is just meant to be fun and conversational, so bear with me:
On this most recent episode of 185 Miles South, Zack and the gang debated the best first-wave US hardcore 7”, the criteria being it must have been released between 1981 and 1983. When I listened to the European hardcore bracket, there were certain records that lost out in matchups, and maybe I didn’t agree with the ranking. And I don’t know what it is, but for some reason, listening to this US hardcore 7” episode made me react more uh… viscerally, I suppose. Maybe it’s because I learned more about international punk later on in my young adulthood, and these early 80s American records were so foundational for me. Like where I really cut my teeth getting into punk as a teenager. And then also, because hunting down these USHC records has been my biggest nerdy record-collecting endeavor.
First of all, I think off the rip Zack even announced that records like the first Minor Threat 7”, Negative Approach, and Poison Idea’s Pick Your King were basically unanimously agreed upon as no-brainers. I was like, alright sick, we’re all good there. Which it’s a cool feeling to strap in for something like this and know that you as a listener, along with all the people participating by speaking on the podcast, are already in agreement. It’s like a “Dude DUH” moment. Super funny. But that’s the whole point, right? Still, these battles are tough. With the 185 podcast pairing these opponents fair ‘n’ square with the alphabet, you never know what the outcome might be. For example, the Deep Wound 7” is an all-time ripper for me, but you gotta hand it to Minor Threat. Maybe some people would say the opposite, but that feels like you’re just being contrarian. I bet J Mascis and Lou Barlow would even vote for Minor Threat. But hey, maybe not.
And as I speak about contrarian opinions… When it got to the second matchup between the Abused and White Cross, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the Abused won. But I would have gone the other way, even if the Abused record is considered undeniable amongst my hardcore peers. I probably just have a soft spot for the White Cross 7”. Me being from the South and that record being the only one in 185’s bracket from that region, it feels like a big part of my world. It felt like a gem when I discovered that record many years ago. 80s hardcore always had a tribal thing about it, and I really dig that aspect. Like in the part in the American Hardcore documentary where that one dude talks about bands being like a pinpoint on a road map. It was nice to hear Zack give White Cross some love. And like I said, I get it. I think The Abused record is great, don’t get me wrong. But it just never appealed to me in the same way. The song “Drug Free Youth” kinda makes me roll my eyes. But whatever. And it’s like the stuff of legend, right? In the collector world, the Abused and Antidote 7”s are like holy grails. Over a G now? Maybe pushing $2,000 these days, I dunno. I’ll never have either of those, I don’t think haha.
I love Battalion of Saints, “Second Coming” being one of their best songs, but I would have given it to Rebel Truth. To me, the BOS EP is like a single. The 2 songs on the B-side are great too, but don’t stand out as much as the title track. The Rebel Truth EP as a standalone record feels stronger to me. I also understand Antidote beating out the State, I suppose. And again, Zack gave the State some love. I just think the State 7” is killer—and because it’s been in print for so many years, I am surprised people don’t talk about it more. Maybe people write it off because you can find the repress for $3 or whatever. But speaking of Havoc, I would have loved to see the Final Conflict 7” in the bracket rather than The State. That Final Conflict 7” is just so gnarly and pissed sounding, and right up my alley taste-wise. Maybe to me the superior Midwest hardcore EP in my opinion. No Mecht Mensch either. But you can’t include everything, right? Like you could have had more Pacific Northwest records represented in the tournament, like The Fartz EP, which was super early ripping hardcore for 1981, or even the Rejectors… but I digress.
It might just be in general that the NY hardcore stuff doesn’t appeal to me as much, and there’s a lot of it appearing on this bracket. And to some people, that’s the best of the best. I do like at least a good chunk of those early 80s NY records. Maybe because they’re a bit more punk sounding to my ears? Like, Urban Waste in particular, I just think is so killer. That said, as much as I love Victim In Pain, between the 2 “united’s” in question, the United Mutation 7” would have beat out United Blood. Easily. Some people will probably think that’s crazy.
But damn man, while we’re still on New York, one moment in the podcast that just hurt my heart was the way the Cause For Alarm 7” was discussed. Don’t get me wrong, Pick Your King should probably win the whole tournament, let alone that matchup. But I was just surprised how everybody talked about it. Describing this record as “baseline” NY hardcore? Seriously? To me, Cause for Alarm is like one of the best records FROM New York! Haha. I think that it’s easily better than a lot of other NY stuff people mention. Like the Mob for example. BOOM. (That record beating the Clitboys is insane, by the way.) Again, maybe it’s because Cause For Alarm is more on the punk side and less “hard” or whatever. But saying the songs don’t stand out? Dude, “United Races?” “I don’t wanna be labeled a punk or a skin!” The way the slow breakdown section kicks in on that song with the punches and stops and starts? Classic. Dude, and with everyone speaking about the drumming on Pick Your King (which agreed, it’s killer), BUT the drumming on Cause For Alarm is so groovy and has all those double kicks obviously done with one foot, getting into intensely raging and urgent territory unmatched by most bands of the era. Incredible. Just sayin’. I dunno man, I expected more love for that record even if it didn’t make it past the first round.
It’s funny to weigh in about Die Kreuzen, considering they won the round. But to say that “Think For Me” is one of the worst songs of the tournament? Come on, dude. I love that song. I appreciated John pushing back a little bit on that. Also, the Die Kreuzen LP is a masterpiece. And then also, even though the Youth Brigade EP isn’t as boneheadedly direct and ripping all the way through like SOA, I think it’s a powerful record top to bottom.
Then finally, speaking of Dischord releases. Don’t get me wrong, I fucking love Ill Repute. And obviously, I know the podcast does as well. I mean, it is the fuckin’ theme song, after all. But it beating out GI? Wiiiiild decision. Haha. Must be a West Coast thing. And honestly, it was kinda cool to hear the guys say they prefer Boycott Stabb. I might agree. Love the guitar playing and sound of that 12”. But I feel like in general, that might be the rare opinion. At least for most of my friends, they ride for Legless Bull all day long (no pun intended?). But it makes sense that 185 would cram some Nardcore into the discussion. I would’ve gone with RKL, personally, but I guess they don’t make the cut with the 7” coming out in 1984.
It was a great episode and super fun listen. Even if it made me audibly yell “WHAT” while I was listening. Haha. But getting heated is part of the fun, right? I’m hoping all the guys on 185 Miles South get a kick out of reading this. And trust me when I say this out of total respect, even if it is me vocalizing some opposition. Real quick, I just wanna mention that I’d never really checked out what a Substack is before. But man, I really encourage you readers to check out the one for this episode of 185. You can tell Zack really put in a lot of effort to show the records, flyers and ephemera, links to listen to the music, clippings of reviews from Maximum Rock’n’Roll… it was really cool to look at and helped contextualize the episode. Kinda pained me to click the “nah, I’m more into metalcore” link button to read it online. I guess I’ll have to subscribe to save myself the embarrassment next time.
I could write so much more, but I’ll cut myself off there. And if you’ve made it this far, I applaud you. As always, thanks for reading. And if you’re missing some of these records I discussed above, or have neglected ever giving them a listen, you’ve got no excuse. As Zack would say: Go handle business.
‘Til next week,
-Jeff